IN an encounter with Cletus Nwachukwu of the Guardian Newspaper , reggae music star, Orits Wiliki speaks on his experience in the music scene. Although he is delighted over the standard of music now, he is irked at the quality and content.
Not much has been heard from you in a long while, musically. What's been happening to Orits Wiliki?
I have not quit music because I have two albums out in the market. Several things necessitated my going into the politics of music, because you can't be working and getting nothing in return. The structures in the music industry, which include responsive collective administration, are missing. The situation is so bad that only corporate bodies are strong enough to organise concerts. People are yearning for live quality concerns and what we have are mediocre or poorly organised concerts. We needed to reorganise all that and that's partly why I have had to shut down and do some retrospect on the way forward.
What do you think about the quality of the music being played now?
I would say we have made some kind of progress and if you go to parties these days, you're going to hear only Nigerian music. Gone are the days when foreign music dominated the clubs and other social events. There is some kind of vibrancy in the music industry. However, the vibrancy does not portray the real essence of the game. What we have today is more of show and little or no business. Talking about the musical content, it's really nothing to write home about. And only very few people are dishing out inspiring, edifying and very good contents. These days, the contents are only about booty and such stuff. Looking back to the days of yore, you would see the big difference in the quality of music played now and then. In our time, we were playing music of the future. The only way out of this situation is that the quality control department of each broadcasting station do their jobs and ensure we stop hearing garbage on the airwaves. The Nigerian Broadcasting Corporation (NBC) which is the watchdog of whatever goes on air should also sit up and help put a stop to the trash on our airwaves.
In your days, you played live music but the situation now is quite different. Many artistes now mime. What's your take on this?
The present system has made our artistes lazy and they no longer do their researches. Before I write my songs, I do a lot of research. You don't have to sing or talk about pains and starvation all the time. You can talk about love in different ways and not using the four-letters word. These days, we're selling sex on our videos.
However, I would say the quality of our videos these days is better than that of the old days. I would like to advise that we channel these skills and qualities into positive things. Our videos today can challenge those produced in other parts of the world.
Your hit album 'Why dis, Why dat?' was huge and remarkably different from the latest works. What actually went wrong?
It depends on the side of the divide you are in. Some people love Why dis, Why dat' and others can die for 'Mumbala-Mumbe. 'One Drop' came after 'Why dis, Why dat' and it was followed by 'Mumbala-Mumbe.' There is more yearning for Orits Wiliki because I have sustained the name over the years and it's by the power of God and hard work.
What I'm doing these days is to move along with the trend. You know, you can't be doing music now like it was done some 20 years ago. You have to use your brain in terms of creativity so that you can marry the two. If Bob Marley were alive, he probably won't be playing roots-rock reggae that he was playing.
What do you attribute this to? The state of the nation perhaps?
I won't say state of the nation. I disagree with those who say Nigeria is a failed nation. I don't think it's really that bad because this is a really blessed nation. Spiritually, I would say Nigeria is the Biblical land of Canaan. A land filled with milk and honey. How can the people who live in here be suffering? I want us to blame the leadership of the country and where would a good leader come from a corrupt society? The book of Isaiah said a nation gets the kind of leadership it deserves. If you say Nigeria is corrupt and you're bringing a corrupt man to lead a corrupt people, you're not going to find succour or righteousness. I think we would have to continue to do our best until God says there's going to be a change. A change in leadership, with good leadership orientation. It's a fact that leadership is not about acquiring wealth for yourself. Even those who did so in the past were buried naked when they died because naked you came, naked you would go. When you have such a mindset, you would realise that the best thing to leave behind is a legacy.
If Fashola leaves Lagos State today as the Governor, he has set a high standard in governance. And whoever wants to rule Lagos after him needs to have his head properly examined and ask himself, 'can I do better than this man has done?'
If Fashola can do so much in two years, then you don't need eight years to do a turnaround of the country's fortunes. Our leaders are those enslaving the people. They have created a huge vacuum in class. What we have today are the top and bottom classes of citizens. When a situation of no middle class arises, every other thing counts for nothing because it is only when you get to the top of the ladder before you can be recognised. This encourages corruption.
In the 90s, some of your colleagues went away in search of greener pastures but you remained here. What was your strength?
The answer is simple: because I have been through that path before. I know also that as a Nigerian artiste, you cannot go and become the king in America. Maybe for those born and bred there, but no Nigerian artiste can just go and conquer America. The only thing out there is to go and do tours, probably within African and Nigerian communities. You can only do small shows and not the big concerts in famous theatres. Moreover, if you stay too long in a white man's country, you would be coming back as a stranger. A lot of us therefore know the difference between home and abroad. We know there's no place like home. I often tell some of my colleagues, let's stay here and salvage the country together. And that's what we're doing presently.
Any hope for a turnaround?
What we presently lack are the structures including the collective administration. When the copyright is working in the country, everything would be fine. When a musician realises that each time he hears his music being played, he's making money, everything would be fine. Our pension lies in our everlasting creative works because we're not civil servants. If all that is not happening, and you see our musicians impoverished and dying in penury, it brings tears to the eyes.
I was at a function recently and the talk was about Gringory and Zebrudaya and others, how they are celebrated and worshipped as demi-gods in nearby Cameroun. Back home, their living standard is not commensurate with their creative efforts. It is so sad because these people who bring you joy and succour, should be treated like kings and queens. They deserve to be celebrated, rewarded and respected. In fact, adequate basic infrastructure should be provided for them.
Would you then say those who seek greener pastures outside the shores of this country may have lost out?
Not at all. They have not lost out because we are holding forth for them. When they come back, they would realise that we've not been fooling around. We have to stay around and ensure that the music industry gives back to us what we've put into it. You never know, my children might be the next set to come into music and if I don't do enough for the industry, they might come in and suffer the same fate as me. That definitely would mean I'm a failed father. It's better I make more sacrifices and when my children become musicians tomorrow, they would come and enjoy better fortunes than we did.
Do you really think reggae music can come back and make a bold impact?
Now, let me bring the cat out of the bag. I'm coming out with a programme called 'Double R'. It would be networked on several stations and it would be strictly reggae and Soca. Many people do not know that hip-hop is an offshoot of reggae music. If you continue your mind to the reggae of old, you would be missing the whole thing. Reggae music is a genre that has given birth to other varieties like hip-hop, dancehall, lovers' rock, the traditional roots-rock reggae and several others.
What actually led you into collective administration?
As I said earlier, there's the need to protect my creative investments. Having spent so much hard-earned money and energy, it would be suicidal to be watching a group of people reaping where they did not sow. Thus, I need to go and ensure we have a working system in place.
What qualifies one for the chairmanship of the plum MCSN. Because it is said there's so much money coming to the body?
Let me tell you, the MCSN is not a profit making organisation. The post is elective and basically as a past or present chairman, the people whose trust you enjoy would want to have you as chairman. I have a board of 16 directors who are versed in the business. Issues are discussed and modalities worked out because we don't have dictatorial tendencies here. As the chairman, I have my duties and experienced people like Mayo Ayilaran who is an expert in the business, handle the resource aspect. We have also the legal department, which deals with the technicalities of everything concerning infringement or protection of rights.
Copyright businesses are done mostly in the courts and when your rights are infringed upon you, don't cry to the government, but go to the law courts. We have not fully utilized the avenues provided by the government to seek redress. Why go on hunger strike because you can't beg for food and expect the government to look for spoon to feed you? Take those you know have infringed upon your rights to courts and stop crying naked to the government.
NCC sometime ago revoked your licences but you still operate. What's the true position of things now?
Firstly, MCSN is not operating as a collecting society. MCSN operates only as owners' assignee exclusive licencee. The difference between it and a collective society is that a collective society is approved by NCC to operate as collecting society. MCSN does not need NCC's approval because they are owners of works legally acquired over the years. When the regulation came for interested collective societies to apply, we did apply in 1984. We were there before NCC came in and when they did, we applied again. Little did we know that there were interest groups with aims of coming as a collective society. Some of these people were directors of NCC and they used their office influence to form PMRS, and denied us the licence. We went to court and after 13 years, we got judgement in our favour. That's the problem and the confusion in the industry, till tomorrow.
You cannot force the marriage of two strange bedfellows. Why not allow interested parties to operate on their own? We don't understand why NCC is not doing that, and it is holding the industry down. What stops you from liberalising the industry? After all, Nigeria is a signatory to international treaties, a signatory to the Berne and Rome Conventions, and other treaties. You cannot operate differently. China did it before and was sanctioned before they turned back.
So, you are now in court against NCC?
Yeah, we're in court because we want to know why they withdrew MCSN's licence. NCC eventually announced that there are no approved collecting societies for now. That's good news and for those who didn't know, MCSN operates differently from PMRS, which is primarily a collecting society. When we did apply for licence to operate as collecting society, it was given to us before the recent withdrawal. That, however, would not stop us form doing our initial business as owners assignee exclusive licence. We are not operating as collecting society.
How does MCSN ensure that other artistes, apart from big stars, get their dues? Secondly, how much is MCSN worth?
This year alone, we have collected from foreign distribution and distributed over N8 million and the local distribution is just beginning. Last year, it was between N14 and N15 million to members. Apart from making Tuface's case public, we have fought and won several other cases like those of Weird MC, Felix Duke and others. And it is only right that when you get such money, you give it to them in the eyes of the public. It's not about hype or showcasing Tuface.
What's your take on PMAN, considering its present situation?
What's happening in PMAN is not peculiar to it. When we were there, I know what we did but it won't be fair to compare what we did in our time to the present situation in PMAN today.
Were you happy at the state you left PMAN?
I'm not happy at the state I left PMAN. We came in and started well, but derailed toward the end.
What's the PMAN of your dream?
PMAN of my dream is one that would bark and bite. Not PMAN of noise and controversy. I want a PMAN that would stand for me and control the industry and its members. Even vulcanisers and road transport workers' unions are better organised and are under good control.
Not much has been heard from you in a long while, musically. What's been happening to Orits Wiliki?
I have not quit music because I have two albums out in the market. Several things necessitated my going into the politics of music, because you can't be working and getting nothing in return. The structures in the music industry, which include responsive collective administration, are missing. The situation is so bad that only corporate bodies are strong enough to organise concerts. People are yearning for live quality concerns and what we have are mediocre or poorly organised concerts. We needed to reorganise all that and that's partly why I have had to shut down and do some retrospect on the way forward.
What do you think about the quality of the music being played now?
I would say we have made some kind of progress and if you go to parties these days, you're going to hear only Nigerian music. Gone are the days when foreign music dominated the clubs and other social events. There is some kind of vibrancy in the music industry. However, the vibrancy does not portray the real essence of the game. What we have today is more of show and little or no business. Talking about the musical content, it's really nothing to write home about. And only very few people are dishing out inspiring, edifying and very good contents. These days, the contents are only about booty and such stuff. Looking back to the days of yore, you would see the big difference in the quality of music played now and then. In our time, we were playing music of the future. The only way out of this situation is that the quality control department of each broadcasting station do their jobs and ensure we stop hearing garbage on the airwaves. The Nigerian Broadcasting Corporation (NBC) which is the watchdog of whatever goes on air should also sit up and help put a stop to the trash on our airwaves.
In your days, you played live music but the situation now is quite different. Many artistes now mime. What's your take on this?
The present system has made our artistes lazy and they no longer do their researches. Before I write my songs, I do a lot of research. You don't have to sing or talk about pains and starvation all the time. You can talk about love in different ways and not using the four-letters word. These days, we're selling sex on our videos.
However, I would say the quality of our videos these days is better than that of the old days. I would like to advise that we channel these skills and qualities into positive things. Our videos today can challenge those produced in other parts of the world.
Your hit album 'Why dis, Why dat?' was huge and remarkably different from the latest works. What actually went wrong?
It depends on the side of the divide you are in. Some people love Why dis, Why dat' and others can die for 'Mumbala-Mumbe. 'One Drop' came after 'Why dis, Why dat' and it was followed by 'Mumbala-Mumbe.' There is more yearning for Orits Wiliki because I have sustained the name over the years and it's by the power of God and hard work.
What I'm doing these days is to move along with the trend. You know, you can't be doing music now like it was done some 20 years ago. You have to use your brain in terms of creativity so that you can marry the two. If Bob Marley were alive, he probably won't be playing roots-rock reggae that he was playing.
What do you attribute this to? The state of the nation perhaps?
I won't say state of the nation. I disagree with those who say Nigeria is a failed nation. I don't think it's really that bad because this is a really blessed nation. Spiritually, I would say Nigeria is the Biblical land of Canaan. A land filled with milk and honey. How can the people who live in here be suffering? I want us to blame the leadership of the country and where would a good leader come from a corrupt society? The book of Isaiah said a nation gets the kind of leadership it deserves. If you say Nigeria is corrupt and you're bringing a corrupt man to lead a corrupt people, you're not going to find succour or righteousness. I think we would have to continue to do our best until God says there's going to be a change. A change in leadership, with good leadership orientation. It's a fact that leadership is not about acquiring wealth for yourself. Even those who did so in the past were buried naked when they died because naked you came, naked you would go. When you have such a mindset, you would realise that the best thing to leave behind is a legacy.
If Fashola leaves Lagos State today as the Governor, he has set a high standard in governance. And whoever wants to rule Lagos after him needs to have his head properly examined and ask himself, 'can I do better than this man has done?'
If Fashola can do so much in two years, then you don't need eight years to do a turnaround of the country's fortunes. Our leaders are those enslaving the people. They have created a huge vacuum in class. What we have today are the top and bottom classes of citizens. When a situation of no middle class arises, every other thing counts for nothing because it is only when you get to the top of the ladder before you can be recognised. This encourages corruption.
In the 90s, some of your colleagues went away in search of greener pastures but you remained here. What was your strength?
The answer is simple: because I have been through that path before. I know also that as a Nigerian artiste, you cannot go and become the king in America. Maybe for those born and bred there, but no Nigerian artiste can just go and conquer America. The only thing out there is to go and do tours, probably within African and Nigerian communities. You can only do small shows and not the big concerts in famous theatres. Moreover, if you stay too long in a white man's country, you would be coming back as a stranger. A lot of us therefore know the difference between home and abroad. We know there's no place like home. I often tell some of my colleagues, let's stay here and salvage the country together. And that's what we're doing presently.
Any hope for a turnaround?
What we presently lack are the structures including the collective administration. When the copyright is working in the country, everything would be fine. When a musician realises that each time he hears his music being played, he's making money, everything would be fine. Our pension lies in our everlasting creative works because we're not civil servants. If all that is not happening, and you see our musicians impoverished and dying in penury, it brings tears to the eyes.
I was at a function recently and the talk was about Gringory and Zebrudaya and others, how they are celebrated and worshipped as demi-gods in nearby Cameroun. Back home, their living standard is not commensurate with their creative efforts. It is so sad because these people who bring you joy and succour, should be treated like kings and queens. They deserve to be celebrated, rewarded and respected. In fact, adequate basic infrastructure should be provided for them.
Would you then say those who seek greener pastures outside the shores of this country may have lost out?
Not at all. They have not lost out because we are holding forth for them. When they come back, they would realise that we've not been fooling around. We have to stay around and ensure that the music industry gives back to us what we've put into it. You never know, my children might be the next set to come into music and if I don't do enough for the industry, they might come in and suffer the same fate as me. That definitely would mean I'm a failed father. It's better I make more sacrifices and when my children become musicians tomorrow, they would come and enjoy better fortunes than we did.
Do you really think reggae music can come back and make a bold impact?
Now, let me bring the cat out of the bag. I'm coming out with a programme called 'Double R'. It would be networked on several stations and it would be strictly reggae and Soca. Many people do not know that hip-hop is an offshoot of reggae music. If you continue your mind to the reggae of old, you would be missing the whole thing. Reggae music is a genre that has given birth to other varieties like hip-hop, dancehall, lovers' rock, the traditional roots-rock reggae and several others.
What actually led you into collective administration?
As I said earlier, there's the need to protect my creative investments. Having spent so much hard-earned money and energy, it would be suicidal to be watching a group of people reaping where they did not sow. Thus, I need to go and ensure we have a working system in place.
What qualifies one for the chairmanship of the plum MCSN. Because it is said there's so much money coming to the body?
Let me tell you, the MCSN is not a profit making organisation. The post is elective and basically as a past or present chairman, the people whose trust you enjoy would want to have you as chairman. I have a board of 16 directors who are versed in the business. Issues are discussed and modalities worked out because we don't have dictatorial tendencies here. As the chairman, I have my duties and experienced people like Mayo Ayilaran who is an expert in the business, handle the resource aspect. We have also the legal department, which deals with the technicalities of everything concerning infringement or protection of rights.
Copyright businesses are done mostly in the courts and when your rights are infringed upon you, don't cry to the government, but go to the law courts. We have not fully utilized the avenues provided by the government to seek redress. Why go on hunger strike because you can't beg for food and expect the government to look for spoon to feed you? Take those you know have infringed upon your rights to courts and stop crying naked to the government.
NCC sometime ago revoked your licences but you still operate. What's the true position of things now?
Firstly, MCSN is not operating as a collecting society. MCSN operates only as owners' assignee exclusive licencee. The difference between it and a collective society is that a collective society is approved by NCC to operate as collecting society. MCSN does not need NCC's approval because they are owners of works legally acquired over the years. When the regulation came for interested collective societies to apply, we did apply in 1984. We were there before NCC came in and when they did, we applied again. Little did we know that there were interest groups with aims of coming as a collective society. Some of these people were directors of NCC and they used their office influence to form PMRS, and denied us the licence. We went to court and after 13 years, we got judgement in our favour. That's the problem and the confusion in the industry, till tomorrow.
You cannot force the marriage of two strange bedfellows. Why not allow interested parties to operate on their own? We don't understand why NCC is not doing that, and it is holding the industry down. What stops you from liberalising the industry? After all, Nigeria is a signatory to international treaties, a signatory to the Berne and Rome Conventions, and other treaties. You cannot operate differently. China did it before and was sanctioned before they turned back.
So, you are now in court against NCC?
Yeah, we're in court because we want to know why they withdrew MCSN's licence. NCC eventually announced that there are no approved collecting societies for now. That's good news and for those who didn't know, MCSN operates differently from PMRS, which is primarily a collecting society. When we did apply for licence to operate as collecting society, it was given to us before the recent withdrawal. That, however, would not stop us form doing our initial business as owners assignee exclusive licence. We are not operating as collecting society.
How does MCSN ensure that other artistes, apart from big stars, get their dues? Secondly, how much is MCSN worth?
This year alone, we have collected from foreign distribution and distributed over N8 million and the local distribution is just beginning. Last year, it was between N14 and N15 million to members. Apart from making Tuface's case public, we have fought and won several other cases like those of Weird MC, Felix Duke and others. And it is only right that when you get such money, you give it to them in the eyes of the public. It's not about hype or showcasing Tuface.
What's your take on PMAN, considering its present situation?
What's happening in PMAN is not peculiar to it. When we were there, I know what we did but it won't be fair to compare what we did in our time to the present situation in PMAN today.
Were you happy at the state you left PMAN?
I'm not happy at the state I left PMAN. We came in and started well, but derailed toward the end.
What's the PMAN of your dream?
PMAN of my dream is one that would bark and bite. Not PMAN of noise and controversy. I want a PMAN that would stand for me and control the industry and its members. Even vulcanisers and road transport workers' unions are better organised and are under good control.
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